A Controversial Debate

[bonnie_rocks]

The rules for being in this debate:

- You must have an LJ. I don't allow anonymous comments.
- Feel free to link your friends to this debate.
- There will be absolutely NO flaming allowed! If a flamewar commences, the debate will be closed.
- I do not advocate the use of racial slurs. Please keep them out of your comments. You don't have to be Politically Correct, but keep the slurs OUT.

And now for the controvial topic:

Why is it that when a person of color says something bad* (demeaning, uncalled for, etc.)about a white person, it's called Empowerment, but if a white person says something about a person of color, it's called Racism?

*Question editted for clarification.

ADDENDUM: This is completely related to the above topic: Hate Crimes. It's a Hate Crime if a white person kills a person of another color, and Al Sharpton jumps on that like a fly on shit. But if a black person kills a white person, it's never considered a hate crime. Discuss.

~*::Meow::*~

Comments

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

Because as my dad says, it's all about "fuck whitey."

Ne, but we have it doubly bad, Bon. We're both white and Jewish. Everyone hates us!!

Makes me think of the Tom Lehrer song "National Brotherhood Week."

[vampedvixen.livejournal.com]

I would say that racism is racism, no matter what color your skin happens to be. And those who use the term empowerment don't always use it correctly.

[chickwithmonkey.livejournal.com]

Can you be more specific about the "something"s? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[bonnie-rocks.livejournal.com]

And...clarified.

~*::Meow::*~

[sterlingspider.livejournal.com]

Because humans are fallible.

[phantomtoe.livejournal.com]

When people of color ( don't we all have a color? White is a color. Also, "white" people are not white, kinda pink, and also tan, if they hit the beach or tanning salons a lot ) say these things, it is also racism. It's just that the whole damn country is in denial.

[cubbi.livejournal.com]

It's not just big races, all sort of miniscule groups get their way in the USA these days - some "National Society Against Defamation of Italian Americans" sued whoever made that commercial about bling with Sopranos-like characters, some theretofore unknown support group to protect the rights of asian americans got a couple DJs fired from FreeFM about a year ago over a prank call to a chinese store, and eventually forced them to switch back to KROCK format (having music back may be a good idea, but so many cool people got fired!).
It's just how the society is here today - the majority bends over whenever someone declares that he represents a group of "offended" people.

[page-of-swords.livejournal.com]

but thats not freedom of speech, thats a company ( Clearchannel in this case ) wanting to cater to a large, growing, and very consumer orientated demographic.

[cubbi.livejournal.com]

Not really, there weren't millions, or even, I bet, a dozen people that were offended. A whole bunch of companies (clearchannel's sponsors in that example, who pulled the ads, forcing the change) catered to a small loudmouthed organization which claimed to represent a race. And, since USA is not a totalitarian state, most speech here is not in the hands of the government to stifle or protect - it's in the hands of commercial enterprise.

[chickwithmonkey.livejournal.com]

I have never heard the term "empowerment" applied to an insult. And too damn many people get offended these days. Sit down and shut up, then maybe you'll learn something about the person you were just offended by.

[jcholewa.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say empowerment, but it's definitely considered more socially acceptable to make fun of caucasians. White boys have less style, they have no sense of rhythm, they can't dance, they're fatter, they're greedier, they're nerdier. The white women? They're dumber, they're easy, they have flat asses.

Don't ever, ever make a racial joke publicly about anybody who isn't white. Well, I guess you can do so in measured amounts, as long as you yourself are not white. The interesting thing here is that white people may hate you if you do so. And most white people (me included; heh, I'm such a hypocrite in this respect ^_^ ) will find amusement if you make a joke at the expense of white folk.

Better read this quick! The Man could cover it up at any time! :O


PS: What's white and fourteen inches long?

[tmercenary.livejournal.com]

people are always looking to justify their actions, and throughout history, some group is always to blame for everything. If it isn't the tribe in the next valley/down river,responsible for the fire and the drought that devastated our village, it's the fault of the kid who is left handed and born under a full moon. After the world became colonized, and borders where starting to get set, they had to find new people to focus their scape goat at, so it is the fault of the blacks, the jews, or the gays. Now in Amerika these days, the small groups blame the large one for everything, because thats the way things go. People fear what they don't know, and they fall easy prey to silver tongued charlatans who would give them an easy focus point for their fear, thus leading to racism, hatred, and intolerance. It is how Hitler took control of Germany. Every so often, the focus changes. Right now, it is the white mans fault. In a hundred years, maybe it will be the martians fault, or maybe the moon men.

[thevirtualjim.livejournal.com]

I think its about what sells.

as a somewhat related example: in my HS anytime there was a stabbing or some-such, the news would report it as 'racially motivated', even though it was almost always black-on-black, white-on-white, or etc. violence.

[manderx.livejournal.com]

I resent your resentment against my racially given right to empower myself to express my resentment towards white folk who resent my resentment against my racially given right to...

It's all about perception, and we all know that everyone's perception is screwed, especially the vocal minority.

And don't dare call hate crime laws reverse discrimination unless your are a person of color.

[vampedvixen.livejournal.com]

I believe to be a Hate Crime the crime must be perpretrated against a minority and the white race is a majority. Simple semantics.

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

It doesn't feel that way anymore...

[vampedvixen.livejournal.com]

It may not feel that way emotionally, but criminal law is written by numbers and statistics, not feelings. Unfortunately.

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

no no! I meant the bit where whites are the majority. But that might be just cause of where we're from. Very diverse...

[bosium.livejournal.com]

It hasn't ever been the case. Hate crimes are crimes of discrimination, to which anyone is vulnerable, no matter how large or small their demographic group.

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

I wasn't making the comment about hate crimes. *sighs* It was about whites being the majority.

[bosium.livejournal.com]

Ah, my apologies. I am making the comment about hate crimes, which should then be in reply to vampedvixen rather than you.

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

I think maybe I should have clarified my thought better to Janet, haha. I wasn't exactly awake when I replied to her.

[evildamsel.livejournal.com]

No. "A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin."

[handlebar605.livejournal.com]

See?? Sammy Davis Jr. was really screwed & was just fortunate to not be gay (Black, Jewish with One Eye). He would often be denied access on his own to the hotels & casinos he sang in, in Las Vegas if he didn't come in with the rest of the Rat Pack.

On a side note, what other actors have only one eye?

it sometimes feels as if I'm defined as an oppressor.

[krystalae.livejournal.com]

Sounds like an all to familiar argument/disagreement I had with a coworker a few weeks ago.

She's claiming it's racist to think that whites and blacks are usually from different backgrounds, and completely refused to even listen to the fact that racism generally involves JUDGING someone based on their race. Now, my just trying to acknowledge that in general whites and blacks tend to have have different attitudes, different slang, and different body characteristics was somehow racist, even though I was in no way saying one was better than the other. They're just DIFFERENT, that's all.

We're all people, we're all different. As much as segregation of the colors is no longer practiced, there are extremely few truly integrated communities in this country, thus your race is still largely an indicator of what kind of background you are likely from, and therefore indicates how you may be different from those of other races in nearby areas.

[tokahfang.livejournal.com]

"Why is it that when a person of color says something bad* (demeaning, uncalled for, etc.)about a white person, it's called Empowerment, but if a white person says something about a person of color, it's called Racism?"

It comes down to privilege. In the USA, white, straight, youngish, able bodied men are the most privileged. Most of them don't even know it, can't see it, can't acknowledge it. On the flip side, members of minority groups are acutely aware of other people's privilege. Its easy to be aware of what other people have that you lack. So they organize, try to pump up their own group's privilege, and in doing so at some point those already-privileged people become the enemy to some of them. It feels good to tear down the perceived bully, as DK put it the "oppressor".

The whole relationship becomes a lot like a pair of brothers, one 9 and one 4. When the 4 year old tries to interrupt his big brother, calls him names, and tries to hit him he's a "pest". When the 9 year old does the same set of actions, he's a "bully". When the 4 year old wins a contest, he feels empowered. When the 9 year old wins decisively, he gets grounded for picking on the little one.

[manderx.livejournal.com]

The same is true in international politics. Terrorist are free to murder, torture and kidnap innocent people. If we take an enemy combatant prisoner (instead of shooting them on the spot) and use non maiming torture, we are commiting an illegal act which justifies the use of the above.
In nature, the appropriate response would be carpet bombing instead of rebuilding their infrastructure.

[ghosteangel.livejournal.com]

I'm a little late jumping in here on the conversation, but... I do think that empowerment, racism, bullying, and being pests...is all a matter of point of view. It's not so much a question of why from one side is this way, and why from the other is it that way...it's a question of why do you think it happens period?

The bottom line is that when you have two sides of anything, it results in a difference of opinion. But, to answer the question more directly I think it is because the White American, is more or less brainwashed from a young age to think in a certain manner. On a larger scale, ALL American children are brainwashed...I mean, taught History....Example: all through school they go over slavery and the civil war...once a year...sometimes twice. Midterms and finals - our own system won't let us forget there ever WAS a difference and preach how nowadays there IS a difference between us. By constantly teaching and reminding that there IS a difference that ONCE existed, it will always exist because it becomes a convenient excuse for both sides when they commit an Inhumane act. It is a way for that Human to excuse themselves from the atrocities they do. At least that is what I think...